mrscracker, I was pretty sure you did.

I have noticed that conservatives are loath to blame parents for anything. It is always the fault of outside influences when a child does wrong, in their estimation. Giving a troubled child a handgun is gross criminal negligence. I don’t believe I have a mentally challenged child in my orbit but my guns are either locked up or with me. And the keys are ALWAYS in my possession. These parent aren’t being accuse of deliberately killing anyone. And yet people are dead and they are largely responsible for these deaths.

It sounds like you had wise parents, Mr. Steven. And yes, I did teach my son & all my children about gun safety.

mrscracker, if your son had the gun since age of 7 your would pretty well know whether he could handle it by age 15, And I’m pretty sure you taught him all about gun safety.

As it happens I got a .22 at age 10. I still have it. My parents made sure I knew how to handle it before I was allowed to use it on my own – for hunting. They would have been aghast if I tried to take it to school!

Also, you cannot conceal a rifle easily. I assume the Crumbleys bought Ethan a handgun. which is not something you use for hunting.

My oldest son was given a .22 rifle by a family friend for his 7th birthday. By the time he was 15 he certainly had unsupervised access in the case of an emergency. We had numerous encounters with poison snakes, varmints, & rabid animals. That’s the whole point of owning a firearm-self defense & defense of livestock.
Many teenage boys ( and girls, too) where we live have access to firearms or own their own firearms because they hunt with their parents or grandparents.
Certainly it’s another situation when a young person, or really any person, suffers from mental health issues. But mental health comes up over & over again in school shootings, workplace shootings, domestic violence shootings, etc. Because of medical privacy laws it’s very difficult to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally unwell. But you’d imagine parents of a 15 year old could do that on their own. What a sad & tragic thing.

Here is a link to another report on the trial:

https://www.npr.org/2024/02/06/1229529110/jennifer-crumbley-ethan-oxford-guilty-school-shooting

Let’s get something straight here.

The Crumbleys didn’t just buy a gun.

These bozos bought a gun as a present for a 15-year-old who had asked for mental help.

Let that sink in for a moment.

Boy complains of mental issues. Buy him a gun.

Does that make sense to you?

They then failed to secure the gun.

So they allowed 15-year-old they had good reason to believe was mentally troubled to have unsupervised access to a gun.

Unsupervised access!

Let that sank in.

Let it really sink in.

15 years old. Complains of mental problems. Buy him a gun. Allow him unsupervised access.

Would you allow a kid you have reason to believe is mentally troubled unsupervised access to a gun?

For that matter, would you allow any 15 year-old kid unsupervised access to a gun?

Note the gun was recently bought. How much instruction did Ethan have in gun safety? No evidence was presented that he had any. In fact there was no evidence presented that any responsible adult assessed how well he handled the gun.

So let’s look at the sequence of events again.

15 year old boy complains of mental problems, asks to see a doctor. Parents buy him a gun as a present. No evidence of instruction in gun safety. Gun is not secured. Boy has unsupervised access to gun.

Is it reasonable to foresee there is a significant probability of this ending in tragedy

Is it reasonable to foresee there is a significant probability that just allowing a 15 year old boy who says he has mental problems unsupervised access to a gun will end in tragedy?

If your answer is “yes” the test for involuntary manslaughter has been met.

Now a child, a minor, is serving life in prison and four other children are dead. That’s a big tragedy.

I would argue that justice would be better served if Ethan Crumbley received the mental help he obviously needs and the Crumbley parents were sent away for life.

It is, of course, only fair to say that Jennifer Crumbley denies thinking that her child was mentally troubled. But it is unarguable that Ethan asked for help and was allowed unsupervised access to a gun.

It would not surprise me if the verdict was overturned on appeal. There are dangers with such a verdict as Kurt Mahlburg points out.

But if the verdict stands and the Crumbleys are sent away for 15 years I would not weep for them.

I would argue that justice would be best served if Ethan received the mental help he obviously needs and the Crumbley parents went away for life.

Exceptional circumstances aside, is there anyone here who would allow a 15 year old child unsupervised access to a gun, a gun that was recently bought with no instruction on gun safety, no adult assessment of how the child handles the gun?

Exceptional circumstances aside again, would you allow a 15 year old child unsupervised access to a gun, period?